‘The Rising Sun’ interviews Asiriyar Dr.K.Veeramani on the occasion of the Birth Centenary of Kalaignar.
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He still keeps the flame of rationalism alive. At 90, Aasiriyar K Veeramani, President of the Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) and an ardent follower of the late rationalist leader and social reformer Thanthai Periyar, is a model of clarity and humility, yet ever-confident on the strengths of the ‘Dravidian Philosophy and Movement’ for all the threats posed by the new right-wing majoritarian politics in the country. Associated with the DK from a young age and assisting Periyar in editing his Tamil Rationalist Daily, ‘Viduthalai’, since 1962, Thiru. Veeramani, a lawyer by training and a passionate social worker drawn by the egalitarian ideals of Periyar, later went on to shoulder the DK’s leadership responsibilities after Maniammaiyar’s death in March 1978. He has also been the Editor of ‘Viduthalai’ since 1978, a unique feat in itself.
In this exclusive interview to ‘The Rising Sun’ Magazine’s Editor, Prof. J. Constandine Ravindran, to mark the commencement of the Birth Centenary celebrations of Muthamizh Arignar Kalaignar
M Karunanidhi, Dr. Veeramani reflects on a wide gamut of developments and issues, from the multi-faceted role of the DMK Patriarch and former Chief Minister Kalaignar in the socio-economic development of Tamil Nadu, giving a better deal to the poor and the downtrodden, protecting Tamil language and Culture, his unceasing push for ‘State Autonomy’ as a means to achieve these, to Kalaignar’s democratic approach and visionary relevance in battling the Hindutva forces today. An expansive conversation for over an hour at the DK office in Chennai saw Dr. Veeramani drawing from a rich mine of anecdotes that give an insight into the twists and turns of Dravidian politics, not to forget the humour that kept Kalaignar going amid all the pains of his political journey. Excerpts from the Interview:
The Rising Sun (RS): Sir, this is regarding the centenary year celebration of Kalaignar M Karunanidhi. You had a rich experience with him. He was a multi-faceted personality, from being an ardent follower of Thanthai Periyar and Anna, a Tamil writer, litterateur, a gifted speaker, to veteran leader of the DMK and five-time Tamil Nadu Chief Minister. How do you see he brought each of these aspects to better the lot of the common people over seven decades?
K. Veeramani: If we analyse the life and achievements and philosophy of Dr. Kalaignar, let us start from what Kalaignar in his autobiography has said. He first gives a very beautiful introduction. The turning point in my life is meeting Periyar. But for meeting Periyar my life would have been different. But that has created a turning point. So, that one sentence if we expand, definitely you will get the answer to your question. Because, basically, he was trained by the Gurukulam of Erode, at ‘Kudi Arasu’ and even earlier he was by himself, very hard working; he always believed in ardently cultivating our Tamil language, literature and Dravidian culture; all these things were inculcated even when he was a student. And when anti-Hindi agitation was very severe in 1938, he was only a 14-year-old boy, holding the anti-Hindi agitation flag. So, Periyar and Anna have created an impression in him; basically, he got fully engaged in this movement. He sacrificed to a certain extent even his education and then he got involved fully in the Movement.
Even during his student period, he started his own hand-written journal, ‘Manava Nesan’ and (later) ‘Murasoli’ was second-in-line. So, in all these things, he was a self-made person, but grew with the Philosophy of Self-Respect which stood in good stead in evolving into a full Kalaignar. And so far as he being a five-term Chief Minister, it is nothing before how courageously he swam against the current. He learnt to swim against the current; So, he was very successful, came out in flying colours in whatever he touched.
RS: But that is very interesting- this (Dravidian) Movement was actually struggling for the education of the poor and the downtrodden. But he sacrificed his own education only for that goal!
K. Veeramani: Yes, only for that philosophy; up to a point, he was eager to study. He was born in a small hamlet of Thirukuvalai, but still he wanted to get educated in Thiruvarur, a big town. As we all know, even when he was not admitted to the school, he goes to the Head Master and cries, “if you don’t admit me, I will go and fall into this Kamalalayam tank.” That was the kind of will and determination he had, the fighting spirit even as a young lad, which made him take decisions (later in the party and as Chief Minister).
As a Chief Minister, he was taking so many decisions; I remember that when he was once asked by reporters about an opinion that he (Kalaignar) took ‘very hasty decisions’, pat came Kalaignar’s cool reply: “My decisions are not hasty decisions; they are quick decisions.” That adeptness, despite not having an English education, in answering questions, he got it from the ‘Gurukulam’ of Erode, as the specialty of the ‘Self-Respect Movement’ involved answering questions even in public meetings… He had enough general knowledge that he could do anything and everything, and he had self-confidence. Even a person well versed in English language, would not have had the presence of mind to answer this one. “There is a vast difference between ‘hasty decision’ and ‘quick decision’. So, what I took was only ‘quick decision’ and my decisions are not hasty”, Kalaignar added.
RS: Whenever we go through his autobiography, ‘Nenjukku Neethi’, not only that, his sense of humour is also there.
K. Veeramani: He had a very high sense of humour. His presence of mind was also very, very sharp, and he could cover any topic and everything. ….On another occasion, when Kalaignar was leader of the Opposition in the Assembly, there was a question on his ‘Neethi Kettu Nedum Payanam (Madurai to Tiruchendur Walk)’; one of the ruling AIADMK members, Musiri Puthan, then sarcastically said, after he had travelled to Tiruchendur in search of ‘Vel’ (‘spear’, that reportedly got lost from the Temple there), people were then saying, ‘Lord Muruga is also not there’. The opposition was on its feet at this biting remark. Kalaignar then said, “Sir, Hon. Speaker, I was going in search of, and to get back the ‘Vel’, which was not there, which was stolen; now only I realize that Muruga was also not there (laughs).” The whole Assembly burst into laughter. ..There are so many such repartees that bring out Kalaignar’s sense of humour. … A top leader should also have a high sense of humour…..it was with Periyar and Anna also.
RS: The basic tenets of Social Justice and Autonomy to the States were always close to Kalaignar’s heart. What do you feel were the high-points in this journey?
K. Veeramani: On another occasion, when Kalaignar was asked in one of the interviews, oft quoted also, as a last question by the Correspondent, “Sir can you give me a one-sentence introduction about you?” ‘Manamigu Suyamariyathaikaran’, replied Kalaignar. ‘Manamigu’, connotes ‘Self-Respect’, though difficult to translate into English;.. but that is at the core. The Justice Party was started as a Non-Brahmin Movement in an organized way in 1916-17. But even earlier, there was the United Dravidian League, people like Dr. Natesanar and others were precursors of this Movement. So, it has been more than 100 years. Basically, the main aim of that Movement, not party, was Social Justice. We want Justice to All. Everything to Everybody. This is very simple. But the Sanatana Dharma Philosophy, the ‘Varnashrama Dharma’ Philosophy, the Aryan Philosophy which is quite against the Dravidian principles, says, “No, you cannot have everything to everybody”. Because it is already predetermined, by your sins, your earlier birth, your previous ‘Karma’, by the ‘Dharma and Karma’. But the Dravidian Philosophy counters: “No, you can and you will by your deeds, by your hard work, by your ability.”
RS: There should be a level-playing field in all fields.
K. Veeramani: It should not be a monopoly of somebody. It cannot be a social monopoly. Hitherto, Education was a social monopoly, thereby all the employment posts were naturally restricted (to a particular caste). The majority who were sons and daughters of the soil, were deprived of the opportunities. They were not enjoying. This is the problem. Basically, they were not only deprived of the opportunities, but they were also dehumanized. So, the reason for which the ‘Self-Respect Movement and the Dravidian Movement’ were started is to re-humanize them, from dehumanization to re-humanization; that is the Self-Respect Movement, that is the basic root in which still the Dravidian Model Government stands. That is the basic… You know there is a proverb in Tamil, “Thaayum Pillaiyum Ondru Aanalum, Vaayum, Vaiyurum Veru”-; so, it is natural; I may be a daughter, a son to my mother, but when you go to the dining table, I should be able to satiate my (individual) hunger. This is the simple Utilitarian Philosophy- (‘everyone to count for one, no-one to count for more than one’.) …
Forget the past, when India was so many kingdoms and all that. At least now, India as per the Constitution, India that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States. If you analyze this proposition, ‘Union of States minus the States is equal to Zero’ (laughs). So basically, as very rightly pointed out by people like N.T. Rama Rao, who was once bold enough to ask: “What does the Centre have to rule?” “They are ruling in abstract. But concrete rule is in the States. So, this (Centre) is a legal fiction,” N.T. Rama Rao said. He was also trained in the Justice Party earlier. That is one simple example.
So, given India is a ‘Union of States’, what I want is, “let us also have a strong Centre; but you enjoy Army and the like (subjects like Defence), but don’t poke your nose, don’t take away all our (States) rights; for instance, GST, another is Education. Education was a State subject, because Education,-what is to be taught in South India may be different from Kashmir, may be different in Assam, may be different in Gujarat-.. So, everybody should have individuality. We cannot sacrifice our individuality. We have every right, even Constitutionally, to protect our language, culture, civilization, everything.
So, this is the basic reason for which we want more powers (Autonomy).
After Anna, when he (Kalaignar) assumed power, the first thing he did was to appoint the Rajamannar Committee. It is still very historical and it is going to have a very good future and ultimately people will have to come to this ‘Dravidian Way’, particularly the way in which our Kalaignar had forethought and foreseen this kind of thing. Everybody is now realizing this, because all the powers (are centralized); once Dr. Baba Saheb Ambedkar, architect of our Constitution, was very particular in warning: ‘Go on having all your powers at the Centre, out of too much overweight it might crumble.’ It will stumble, it will crumble, it will collapse. So, in the larger interests, and in the best interests of the Centre itself, let them share, devolve more powers to the States. And we want a strong Centre, but one which respects the States and there are no two opinions about it. This is the basic idea of ‘Self (State) Autonomy’.
RS: As our CM (M.K. Stalin) said, strong States will ensure a strong Centre.
K. Veeramani: Definitely. If you share and if you care,- the other side of ‘Maanila Suyatchi (State Autonomy)-, it is nothing but sharing and caring, either way. We all share and we all care. It is a practical, very pragmatic approach also, Constitutionally sanctioned which cannot be termed separation or something like that. So Kalaignar’s role (in this issue) is a very exemplary role, because it is based (on the approach) to save our culture, language, tradition, everything.
(to be continued)
(Transcribed by M.R. Venkatesh &
D.J. Walter Scott)
Courtesy: ‘The Rising Sun’ June 1-15
