On celebrating the Birth Centenary of Kalaignar M. Karunanidhi, veteran leader of Dravidian Movement, ‘The Rising Sun’, published by the Murasoli Trust interviewed Asiriyar Dr.K.Veeramani, President of Dravidar Kazhagam, the parental organization of Dravidian Movement.
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(… continuing from the previous issue)
The Rising Sun: Today, freedom of speech, rationalism, agnosticism and the Dravidian Ethos are all under severe attack by the Hindutva forces. How can the lives of leaders like Kalaignar be an inspiration to the next generation to overcome this difficult situation?
K. Veeramani: Definitely. This Self-Respect Movement, Dravidian Movement, as a Movement is not really meant for a few years of an election-oriented political party. Kalaignar was not a politician in that sense, following Anna, because they were in the footsteps of Periyar. They were all Statesmen. They were thinking of not only the next election, but also the next generation. So, we care more for generations. This is the difference between the Dravidian Movement and other political parties.
RS: Can you cite one or two incidents which Kalaignar faced especially during 1971-72; that time Hindutva forces were completely against Kalaignar and Periyar. There was an incident of a portrait of Ram being hit by chappal !
K. Veeramani: See, in (January) 1971 that happened. In 1971, he (Kalaignar) preponed the election though one more year he could have run the government after he had assumed power after Anna’s sad demise. Indira Gandhi, following nationalization of banks and other things (socialist moves), announced sudden parliamentary elections. Then he (Kalaignar) also announced (mid-term) elections after consulting Periyar. That was a secret then, about which I have written now. He elicited his advice, and it was Periyar who said it was the right time you can go in for an election… …. He consulted Periyar….. and that is more important.
Periyar then went on to say it was the best time, very congenial, politically,… and so people will definitely support us as I am moving with the people. This (opinion of Periyar) was conveyed to him (Kalaignar). He took the decision and that was announced in the Assembly. And also, Kalaignar played his own card,- by deciding to give many seats (to then Indira Congress) for the Parliament election, but limiting the seats to only one or two for the State Assembly-. He was a Statesman. So, he always took a very different stand. Parliament election is only for the Centre, while DMK’s primary interest was in the State. At that time, Kamaraj and Rajagopalacharaiar were both political opponents to the core. Yet, they joined together to defeat DMK, though later on Kamaraj repented (for aligning with Rajaji);.. it was nothing but political expediency, yet they have done that, jointly giving a slogan ‘Protect Democracy’.
When these things were going on, Periyar had convened an ‘Anti-Superstition Conference’ at Salem. There, he deliberately avoided inviting any DMK Ministers,…because it (conference) was about eradication of superstition, ‘Mooda Nambikkai Ozhippu’. What happened that day was a travesty of Truth. Usually, he (Periyar) used to be critical of what is ‘Ramayana’, what is ‘Purana’, at all public meetings; that was the usual, routine way, without hyping such things.
As usual, Periyar narrated the ‘Shambuka’ episode (from the Ramayana). But what happened, you know, Jana Sangh, there was no BJP at that time, a handful of them, announced that in protest against Periyar’s criticisms of Hindu Gods and superstitions, they will show him black flags when he took out a procession that day…. That was conveyed by the Police to the Chief Minister. Kalaignar, in his own approach, you see that is the beauty and individuality of Kalaignar, never tried to ban it or arrest them (Jan Sangh people). Any opposition used to energize Periyar’s spirits even more. Periyar would see the black flags, as a particular place where they (Jan Sangh) can show the black flags in an orderly way was allotted (in Salem); Periyar would also answer them. Kalaignar’s position was, “I as a government will allow both, I don’t want to show favouritism, to this or that”. This is what happened.
When the (anti-superstition) pageantry moved on, the black-shirt people (DK cadre) were so infuriated because of a few people (from Jan Sangh) showing black flags… One of them, as Periyar’s vehicle was passing that way, threw a chappal; …other pageants, of Rama, Krishna, was going on one-by-one; so, Rama’s story, how Valmiki Ramayana was born, all these things were depicted in drawings and people were shouting slogans (hailing Periyar and against superstitions)…… then immediately, one chappal fell on one of the black-shirt volunteers who was in the rear. By that time, Periyar’s vehicle had just passed. They aimed at Periyar but missed. But this (DK) guy (at the receiving end of the Chappal), then beat it (a portrait of Ram beheading the Shudra Shambuka), saying you people want to humiliate my leader… it was not at all deliberate, or pre-mediated or anything intentional, it was a spontaneous act…hardly anybody noticed it; it was (rather) a very small accident.
However, as the DMK was getting more and more popular in spite of such incidents, the issue became-, when Rajagopalachari and Kamaraj (Congress-O) opposed it-, a Brahmin versus Non-Brahmin row. Then, they sought to project this incident of Chappal (throwing) as though Periyar had done it, though Periyar had nothing to do with it.
Then afterwards,- you know the nature of Periyar-, when asked whether he had done it, Periyar replied, ‘Why Not’? He will never be on the defensive, even in his arguments.
So, they wanted to utilize this (rhetorical twist) for the elections. Because, in the elections the DMK was getting popular; so immediately they thought this was the best thing, Cho (Editor of Tamil magazine ‘Thuklak’) and others, with Kamaraj, planned it.
…..It became a big election issue as the magazine on its front page printed a cartoon, a caricature, depicting Periyar holding a Rama picture on the one hand and a ‘chappal’ on the other, and also suggesting Chief Minister Kalaignar relished it. But that was not true, actually. ….But they (Congress-O then backed by Rajaji ahead of the 1971 general elections) wanted to utilize that as a political weapon, to convey, cutting across political parties, that religious feelings have been kindled, hurting the feelings of devotees. It had nothing to do with religion…Another thing was there, a resolution (at the conference) about women’s freedom, which was also distorted;…..because DMK and DK were very close, they used it as a political weapon for mobilizing voters against those ostensibly insulting Lord Ram.
Then we countered it. When they had overblown it, it turned out to be a Brahmin-Non-Brahmin question…. As this controversy raged, Rajagopalachariyar, to reporters, brooked no comparison of Periyar demolishing Ganesh statues during his earlier Chief Ministership with this ‘chappal beating’ of Lord Ram’s portrait, terming the latter as ‘Himalayan’. …Even the DMK, at one stage, was taken aback, scolding the DK people for ‘spoiling our (electoral) opportunity’. …However, through various public meetings we took the issue to the people and exposed their false propaganda, posing how Rajagopalachari and Kamaraj, otherwise like oil and milk, have joined together to revive ‘Brahmin Rule’ in the State.
After the elections, when the results were announced, the DMK came back to power in a big way, eventually winning 184 seats, going up from 138 it won in 1967.
Main crux of the problem is – when you are overdoing (something) it will invariably have a backlash; only the Brahmin-Non-Brahmin issue- whether Rajagopalachari should rule or the DMK should rule- stood out in the elections and other issues did not matter…. Tamil Nadu voters are not swayed by emotions of ‘Bakthi’. People go to Temples here but they will vote for DMK. The BJP never took-off, from then till now, that is the strength of the Dravidian victory and Dravidian Philosophy.
RS: Can we take that it shows the people’s maturity in distinguishing between Polity and Religion?
K. Veeramani: They know, they know, because of Communal G.O., because of social justice, they got education, they got employment; but for the Dravidian Movement, but for Periyar, but for Anna, but for Kalaignar, this would not have been achieved. They were very grateful. They were able to distinguish between ‘Bakthi’ and ‘Philosophy’. This still stands. The strength of the Movement, Dravidian Philosophy lies there. So, nobody can touch even now, whatever may be your propaganda, false propaganda and all these things.
So, this you will have to understand from the achievements of Kalaignar. First time, social justice was implemented for Backward Classes. In the whole of India, he was the first Chief Minister to create a separate Ministry for the welfare of the Backward Classes (BC). Then later on, from BC to Most Backward Classes (MBC) and he enhanced the percentage from 16 per cent to 18 per cent (for SC/ST), from 25 per cent to 31 per cent for BCs’. … So, basically, the people are aware of it. The Tamil soil will never forget it. The achievements of Kalaignar are reciprocal. People have reciprocated. That is the important thing.
RS: Sir, you know the DK has primarily been a social movement in Tamil Nadu. It has shaped the policies and politics of the state. Given your long valuable experience in leading the DK after Periyar, how do you feel progressive forces can protect and nurture the spirit of secularism and liberalism without falling prey to the misguided religious revivalism and fundamentalism of the RSS-BJP ecosystem?
K. Veeramani: This is a very vital question you have raised. I appreciate it. Only in the coming (polls), they have got muscle power, they have money power, they have media power. But we need not get a defeatist mentality out of this. To defeat all these things, the Dravidian Movement has shown, by various experiences and also its past history, we can defeat all these things with our Mind Power. The mind power is ours. We can convince the people. But at the same time, our approach should be an open approach. See, our present Chief Minister, M.K. Stalin, has already shown that formula, and he has used it very sagaciously – he has got that political sagacity- he has done it very nicely during the last (2019) Parliamentary elections. That is why, even after Kalaignar, he has proved it is not ‘Vetridam (empty space)’, but it is only ‘Kattidam (solidity)’. One thing, he has taken all the Opposition (parties), all the people, based not on seats, but on principles. So, Secularism, Social justice, these are all principles that binds us; … in this soil of Periyar, Anna, of Kalaignar, Social Justice soil, we all unite; and now, they (BJP), are in power for the last nine years, it is a very ardent job, it is not an easy job, they know how to make people divide and rule, how to exploit the opposition, how to use the casteist forces, and all such things; Let me answer this in a simple way, what I have told in a Communist Party conference. Let us all consider ourselves as fire-fighters.
In dousing the fire of the religious fanatics and against these anti-secularism and anti-social justice movements, …let us consider this one-point programme: who should not come (to power after the 2024 Lok Sabha elections) is primary; who should come is secondary. And identify your enemy properly. That is the first phase of the war. If you are able to identify who is your enemy, that is the way to completely put out the fire. So let us all join together, all the parties come together, put forward the one-point programme (of being fire-fighters); but the various formula (from state-to-state) they have to be worked out, for the formula need not be the same uniform formula; instead of the ‘I’, ‘We’ should be the word.
There is no place for political ego. Think of the common enemy. Get united. Think you are all fire-fighters and you will find the answer.
RS: Minorities are facing a big threat and they fear that the Constitution could be rewritten to make India a Hindu majoritarian State if the BJP returns to power after the 2024 Lok Sabha elections. Your thoughts on this issue Sir.
K. Veeramani: Certainly, in Karnataka, they tried this hard Hindutva card by belittling and taking away the rights of the Minorities, openly, deliberately, intentionally. People gave the answer. So, definitely, and instead of fearing themselves and falling prey to the machinations of the ruling party, the Minorities also should be able to stand, get united.
RS: How to counter the BJP’s social engineering ?
K. Veeramani: Actually, first identify the person, who is your real enemy and who is going to give deliverance to you. Identify the proper leader, identify the proper person;… because this is their last game; it is a question of survival, now or never; they will go to any extent. So, we must be prepared to meet them in their own language, in their own way. But people are prepared. People have already decided. People have already suffered. The sufferers have all joined together and have decided. How to get your yield in the field? From the field the yield will be there. How to get it to the granary ? People are prepared as in Karnataka….So, leaders must decide. People have decided. Whether you are going to cooperate with the people or not? That is the question. The same question must be converted into action. Thank You.
RS: Thank you Sir.
(Concluded)
(Transcribed by
M.R. Venkatesh & D.J. Walter Scott)
