Asiriyar Dr. K. Veeramani along with Prof. Diane Winston, the members of study delegation and the functionaries of Dravidar Kazhagam (Chennai – 9th March 2024)
A delegation of professors and students from South California University in Los Angeles (U.S.) visited Periyar Thidal, the Head Quarters of the Dravidar Kazhagam, Chennai. Journalist Bonnie Thomas of Kerala co-ordinated with them and escorted. The team belonged to Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism affiliated to University of South California. The team was led by Professor Ms.Diane Winston, the Knight Chair in Media and Religion. The visit of the team was on 9th March 2024. The Delegation had an interaction with Dr. K. Veeramani,President, Dravidar Kazhagam. The event was held under the caption – “Self-Respective Life Causes Contentment”. During the Question-Hour, Dr. K. Veeramani answered as follows, in response to the queries of the delegation members:
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How do you see the position and environment of the U.S. and India in the societal field?
In the U.S. human equality exists as per the laws enforced. In India, though the constitution stresses the rights to equality practically it has not come true because the caste system here makes inequality exist despite all our efforts. We are all tirelessly striving to abolish caste systems and ignite awareness in our people in order to revitalise their spirit of self-respect and rationalism. As far as the U.S. is concerned, Rationalist movements are functioning with a smaller scale of activities since caste system problem does not exist there. Caste system here is based on religions. As religious sentiments have seated deep rootedly in our society, smaller movements cannot smash caste system so easily. It would not yield good results. Therefore our rationalist movement is functioning as a very large movement of the people. Much progress and advancement were there in the previous century by our persistent efforts and progressive activities. We still have to go a long way in accomplishing all our tasks. There was once a pitiable condition wherein there were obstacles for majority of our people even to acquire basic education. We overcame all the hurdles and have progressed considerably in the field of Science and Technology. As there are no such hurdles for development and growth in the U.S., it has witnessed advancement, growth and progress to a large extent.
Is religion really a great problem?
Certainly! It continues to be a great obstacle for progress. It is based on beliefs. It denies the right to question. Religious sentiments differ from one country to the other, but all religions have one attitude in common; denying equal treatment to the womenfolk. In the level of inequality there may be difference among world countries. But the unpalatable truth is that none of the religions treats women on a par with men.
On the basis of historical facts, Buddha started a people’s movement long ago to establish an existence with a rationalist outlook at everything in life. Buddha preached a principle of life devoid of religious undertone. But with the passing of time, even Buddha’s views got entrapped in the net of religion and continues to exist with a religious identity. In India religion was infact ‘Vedic religion’ in the beginning. It was later known as ‘brahminic religion’. During the Conference held in 1863 at Chicago (U.S.), to discuss religion, Vivekananda participated in it, only as a representative of ‘brahminic religion’.
After cropping up discrimination among humans, people have sanctified that discrimination itself on this land. No one can easily question a discrimination behind the veil of religion. Equality of women does not lie in religion. Among Gods we find several women Goddesses. But women are not able to serve as priests in temples. They are not allowed to serve even temples of Goddesses. Only very recently women could be appointed to serve outside the sanctum sanctorum to chant religious hymns as invoking priests. Atleast progress to this extent was made possible by the present Government in Tamil Nadu, headed by the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (DMK). Our Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) has been patronising them. This movement has been rendering public services by extending support to them.
We have learnt that a sum of Rs.1,000/- is being offered to women by the Government of Tamil Nadu as an aid on humanitarian grounds. Could you please tell us something more about this ideal scheme?
Yes. Rs.1,000/- is being offered to economically backward homemakers every month by the present Dravidian Model rule in Tamil Nadu. But it is not as a financial aid. It is given as a rightful offer. Besides this rightful benefit to women, every woman student pursuing higher education in Colleges and Universities is being paid Rs.1,000/- per month as an educational aid. The higher studies of girls is getting augmented and supported by this favour by the Government of Tamil Nadu.
Long ago women were denied property rights. A resolution was passed in 1929 by Periyar during a Self-Respect conference, in order to redress this grievance of women. Following his ideological path, when the great Tamil scholar Kalaignar was the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu in 1989, he enacted a law providing Property rights to women. During 2006, when the U.P.A. Government was in rule by the patronage and participation of the D.M.K. Party, Women’s Property Rights law was enacted for the entire country. It is in vogue till this date. Religion, ancient scriptures and outdated codes were a great obstacle for the grant of property rights to women. When Dr. Ambedkar tried to introduce the Hindu Code Bill to enable women acquire equal rights, religious fanatics severely opposed his move. Resisting this opposition, he had to resign his post as the Minister for Law.
Facing all the religion based hurdles as a great challenge, it was our Dravidar Kazhagam (DK Movement) that strove to help women acquire property rights.
We are given to understand that, in order to establish gender equality, several welfare measures for women have been introduced and implemented. We would like to know more in detail about such measures.
Our Dravidian Movement cared much for the health and well-being of women. It is a fact that the family burden of women would increase if the child birth remains uncontrolled and if the families are not wisely planned. During 1930 itself, Periyar propagated the dire need of family planning in society. With the objective of achieving Women’s liberation he used to stress that women should opt for a small family. Periyar inculcated an awareness in women by his propaganda and public speeches. Women are coming forward in large numbers for family planning, compared to men in society. Female infanticide was declared a social injustice against women. Termination of pregnancy for female infanticide was made illegal. All these measures and actions were aimed at the well-being and sound health of women.
In your English monthly ‘The Modern Rationalist’, we happened to read an article about eradication of superstitions. What are your views on Ayush Medical Practice, Yoga etc:?
Every unscientific medical treatment is a deadly threat to human life. Ayush comprises Ayurvedic treatment too. It does not involve any need for surgery. Medical Practitioners qualified in Ayurvedic system of treatment cannot perform surgeries like qualified surgeons. Such problems are to be questioned and probed into. Our movement has been opposing Pseudo-Science at all times.
Yoga is being propagated with a religious coating and symbol. It is a kind of breathing exercise. Taking a deep breath and exhaling air perfectly helps mental concentration and inner harmony. Other than this, there is no spiritual aspect in Yoga. At the most it could be accepted only as a mode of health care. However, using Yoga as a tool to propagate a religion must certainly be condemned and opposed.
We would like to know more in detail about the caste system prevailing in India. Could you please keep us informed?
Caste System is the sign of overpowering and domination of a few in society. Birth based inequality is imposed on humans. Gullible people are made to believe blindly that it has been ordained by the so called Gods. This was a ploy of religious fanatics. People tolerated suppression and oppression as an act of fate. They blamed their “destiny” when they were denied even fundamental rights. Some ignorant people even stooped to the extent of glorifying their own suppression, degradation and servility. Education was denied under the pretext of caste inferiority. An unwritten law was also there long ago compelling students to seek family occupations. Religion safeguarded all such social injustices.
Many reformatory movements were founded for the upliftment and basic rights of the working classes, but since its formation a hundred years ago it is our Dravidar Movement (DK) that has been vigorously and persistently carrying on with that noble task.
The Union Government has been introducing and implementing several schemes with the sole intention of making ineffective all our hundred year old escalation and making us regress, rather than progress.
We have to retrieve all the rights using the same caste identity that was used for their seizure and denial by vested interests. The right way for that achievement is affirmative action, as it is known in the U.S. and as ‘reservation’ in India. Affirmative action would lead our people to absolute equality in all spheres. People marginalised socially and educationally, betrayed backward people, scheduled caste people and tribals can achieve upliftment only through reservation in employment and education.
Dravidian Movement paved the way for communal G.O. for this purpose in 1921 itself, during the British rule in India. In the free India, post-independence, reservation policy was under threat by certain court verdicts. At that juncture, public support was mobilised and protest meets were held to seek a solution. Periyar was instrumental in amending the constitution suitably and making the reservation policy continue to be in vogue. Following the path laid by him, we brought about several positive improvements in reservation policies. Today, in this particular aspect, Tamil Nadu has become a sign post for the entire country and an ideal model to emulate. If the state serves as a beacon light for all the States, the credit ought to go to the Dravidian Movement.
However, the task of absolute equality is yet to be accomplished completely. There are still many who have not derived benefits out of reservations. People of various castes and classes are yet to be benefitted.
To compile details of such people, caste census is essential and inevitable. In the world of medicine, scanning is necessary for diagnosis. It is essential to analyse the stage of a disease and plan subsequent treatment to save a human life. Similarly, caste census is almost like scanning the society itself. A countrywide caste census alone can perfectly determine who should get reservation; how and to what extent. This would be social justice. The Dravidian Movement is voluntarily raising its voice to achieve this objective. But those in the Union Government with party affinity have been protesting against caste census. This is today a large obstacle.
Their protest reflects their stand of allowing caste system and inequality to continue in existence. The task of our movement and the intention of all of us in it, is to bring about a drastic change in this kind of political and social conditions. Unmindful of success or failure in our fights, we aim only at establishing equality in society. The Dravidian Movement believes that annihilation of caste system is the only way to form an egalitarian society. We are striving relentlessly with this resolve.
Skin colour discrimination is a menace in the U.S., whereas caste disparities are an unsolved problem in India. How do you distinguish them?
Both sorts of discriminations are based on birth and skin colour. Though there was disparity in the U.S. between the White population and the Black Americans, the Afro-American children were not denied education and literacy. The White allowed the literacy of the Black but insisted on isolated learning activities, avoiding mingling with the children of the White population. But we observe that there are amazing changes today in the U.S. – All are being recognised as Americans.
In India the societal conditions were horrible. Caste supremacy stifled the downtrodden. Education was restricted to a privileged few. The academic world was monopolised by one particular caste. The oppressed working class people were labelled as “Sudhras” and belittled. They were denied access to education. They were punished severely if they attempted to acquire learning. Watching the upper caste students involved in studies was also treated as a punishable offence. Barbaric punishments were there for ‘Sudhras’ who violated these codes of conduct. Gullible people were told that all these are by ‘God’s will’. These autocrats acted as self-appointed guardians of religion.
Infact caste discrimination is worse than colour discrimination. In the U.S. the White and the Black were separated but were equal. They were just made to keep their distance but were not treated as inequal entities. On the other hand, not all are considered equal in India. The superior and the inferior were segregated on the basis of caste. This atrocity has been in practice for centuries. As per the Indian Constitution, discriminating Indian citizens on the basis of biological structure, skin colour, caste, and place of birth or any other aspect is strictly prohibited, but in reality this has not come fully so far into practice. The discriminations continue to exist in India.
The Dravidian Movement is striving to make constitution implemented and adhered to in practice. Caste system is not a physical structure at all. It is a State of mind; and attitude. And yet it has been existing firmly for thousands of years; quite stronger than physical structure. Many movements of progressive leaders did try to annihilate caste system. As they had not clearly understood the intricacies of the dominance of autocratic fanatics, they left the task incomplete. Their travel stopped before reaching the destination. Several other movements too made an half-baked attempt to reform and failed.
The Dravidian Movement alone is striving with an unflinching resolve even after the lapse of a century, with perfect understanding and constructive measures to annihilate caste system and eradicate all sorts of social injustice.
Sometimes it seems being colour blind is the only way to be oblivious of inequality, disparity, skin colour discrimination and gender bias. If the people of the world have to live with absolute equality, they must turn a blind eye to all the differences among themselves. True humanity lies in throwing overboard all the differences. Today, humans are not being really treated as humans. They exist almost as non-humans. They must imbibe perfect awareness. Only that can make them complete humans. As humanists, it is our bounden duty and responsibility. Beyond the boundaries of countries and states, we must all collectively strive to complete this mission. As true humans, all of us should restlessly work hard to achieve that noble objective.
Recently we learnt from print media and electronic media reports that as per a court verdict, non-Hindus are not allowed to enter a temple crossing the metallic flag staff outside the Sanctum-Sanctorum. As a Stalwart of humanist movement, how do you perceive this prohibition?
This particular temple is considered restricted for a particular religion. But we should see whether this prohibition is there in other temples of the same religion. A religion that believes that the world was created by “God” and that all people in the world are “Godsend”, should allow all people to enter any temple and worship. That would be true justice. Why should a religion discriminate people? The truth is that religious bias is the root cause of all such disparities, inequality, and social injustice. If the so called God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent, all these crazy restrictions should vanish. Does it make any sense if there are “God” forsaken places too on earth? If the so called “God” is indeed just, why should some people be denied temple entry and the right to have an access to its sanctum sanctorum? Are not all people equal in the sight of the so called “God”?
We feel firmly, law is nothing but an interpretation, but in the case of this particular court verdict cited by you it is certainly not a good interpretation. As humanists, we consider such restrictions as a sign of absolute dehumanisation.
Who could be actually called “Dravidians”?
That is a good question. Being a Dravidian does not depend on any sort of racial extremism. It does not lie in a blood test, outward appearance or D.N.A. analysis. How is a ‘Dravidian’ defined then? This depends on culture. This culture avoids discriminating people in any manner. It isolates none. This identity believes in inclusivity. It treats all humans as equal. The motto of every “Dravidian” is that “Everything is for everyone”. According to the renowned poet Valluvar’s couplet no one is different from anyone by birth. The nature of one’s work, determines how they are classified in society.
Dravidian culture is against birth based discriminations. It insists on self-respect. It believes that “Self-respective life causes Contentment” – the caption of today’s interaction with you. We reiterate that economic advancement alone is not sufficient. People should live with dignity and knowledge. Every one should respect all the fellow human beings. Dravidian culture is beyond the confines of countries, states and all boundaries. “Dravidians” implies universal humanism. It is a common virtue for all. All those who adhere to this principle are “Dravidians”.
Respectful D.K. President, am I entitled to call myself a “Dravidian”?
Yes. Professor! You have the right to call yourself a “Dravidian”. Why not? If you believe all are equal, you are indeed a ‘Dravidian’. You are “Dravidians” in the U.S.; we are “Dravidians” in India. That is the only difference.
Habitats differ – not culture. ‘In the World to Come’, all of us must be called humans and Dravidians in particular. This was a dream of Periyar. He strove to see this new era. He dreamt of a new dawn throughout his 95 long glorious life. He wanted his movement to go ahead with this vision and mission even after his life time. Let us make all his dreams come true! Let us all live as true humans! Thanks to everyone of you dear friends.
(By Ms. Diane Winston – Knight chair in Media and Religion, who led the entire team of scholars):
Sir, You do not look 91 year old. You responded to our queries as a 20 year old youth. What is the secret, Sir?
Madam, age is merely a number. Age can never wither me. I keep my energy vital by restless public services. I believe, I may rust if I rest.
Compiled by – V. KUMARESAN
